Interview with Shannon Hitchcock and Naheed Senzai, Authors of Flying over Water

My writer friend Shannon Hitchcock has a new book out and I'm so excited for her. I've been a fan of Shannon's work since I read her moving and absorbing novel The Ballad of Jesse Pearl several years ago. Since then Shannon's written two additional middle grade books, a picture book, and now has a contemporary and very timely novel out, co-written with author Naheed Senzai. 

Flying over Water pulled me in from the very first page, as we meet Noura, a Syrian refugee who's moving to Tampa with her family during the very week that the Muslim ban is set to go into effect in the US. Later, we hear from Jordyn, an American girl whose family is helping Noura and her family settle into the community. The book alternates between the two girls, both of whom have secret fears and both grappling with issues many middle schoolers face-- friendship, competition, and fitting in. 

Today, I am thrilled to sit down with both Shannon and Naheed for a behind-the-scenes look at how the book came to be.  

Jody: Where did you get the idea for the book? 

Shannon: I got the initial inspiration for Flying over Water when a friend’s daughter converted to Islam. I started researching the religion, though I wasn’t exactly sure where the journey would take me. Around that same time, I saw a photograph in my minister’s office of a Syrian woman and her young son. They held a sign that said We Are From Syria—Can You Help Us? I started writing a manuscript about a young girl whose church is helping a Syrian refugee family. I wrote an entire first draft from the Christian girl’s point of view, but then I started reading online conversations about #ownvoices-- 

Jody: --This is the movement that promotes marginalized characters being written by marginalized authors--

Shannon: Right. And thinking about that made me realize the manuscript would be more interesting if the Muslim character could speak for herself rather than her story being filtered through the lens of the Christian girl. I decided to seek a co-author, and after reading Escape from Aleppo by Naheed Senzai, asked my agent to reach out to hers.  

Naheed: And I was intrigued by the idea. I read the manuscript and immediately connected with the story of a Syrian girl, Noura, arriving to the United States as a refugee, befriended by an American girl, Jordyn. My previous book, Escape from Aleppo, was about a family fleeing the Syrian war and ending up in a Turkish refugee camp. Noura’s story provided an opportunity to explore what would happen to a such family if they were granted asylum in the United States. 

At that point Shannon and I had a long phone conversation. We got to know each other and discussed how to co-author an engaging and interesting story that incorporated both our ideas. Once the groundwork was laid, we got busy writing Flying over Water.

Jody: I'm wondering how co-authoring works exactly. Did you write your character's scenes separately and pass back and forth or was there more collaboration involved? 

Naheed: A bit of both. We decided to write in alternating chapters, beginning with Noura arriving in Tampa on the day of President Trump’s Muslim ban. We brainstormed and created a timeline of the story then plotted out the manuscript using Google docs. Once we agreed on plot, we wrote our respective chapters and passed them back and forth via email. One advantage to having a co-author is having a built-in critique partner. We also had weekly telephone calls. 

Jody: And this worked throughout the revision process too? 

Naheed: It did. Revision actually was pretty simple. We talked out the feedback we'd received to make sure we were on the same page, and then we each made the changes that applied to the chapters we had written. 

Jody: You mentioned Trump's Muslim ban... the book also delves into anti-immigrant sentiment in this country, using examples of real-life hate crimes from the news. What are your thoughts on writing a story set in a particular, very recent and fraught moment in history? 

Shannon: Both of us avidly follow politics so writing about the current political climate was a natural fit.

Naheed: And I’ve been lucky to travel and live around the world, particularly the Middle East. Also, my husband is a professor of Middle East politics so we have lively discussions on the region, its legacy of colonialism, wars, religions, people and of course its wonderful food. A core element of Flying over Water is to highlight how young people can become positive agents of change by engaging in civic and political action.  

Jody: This is something I really loved about the book--how these middle school aged kids are affected by world events and how they respond, especially considering how different Noura and Jordyn are on the surface. 

Naheed: On the surface, yes. They come from very different backgrounds, but they find out they have a lot in common. When faced with challenges such as xenophobia and intolerance, they band together with other students to fight for their rights as afforded by the constitution and its amendments. 

Jody: This is another aspect I liked about the book, how you've woven in elements of history and civics. I used to teach middle school students and I can see this story being discussed in classrooms. Have you gotten any responses yet from teachers?

Shannon: Since our book was just published on October 20th, we're still getting the word out. We had our first joint virtual school visit on November 19th, and Scholastic videotaped us for The Nerdy Book Club Roundtable that was part of the National Council of Teachers of English. 

Naheed: We have gotten quite a few nuanced and thoughtful reviews; I will quote an educator, who said: "Narrated in alternating chapters by the two seventh grade girls, FLYING OVER WATER is a powerful, uplifting, and eye-opening tale. In addition to Trump, a number of other real people and events from the Spring of 2017 are part of the story."

Jody: The book definitely seems to be striking a chord. I just read that Kirkus listed it as one of their favorite middle grade books of 2020. Congratulations! Before I let you both go, what are each of you working on now? 

Naheed: I am currently working on a picture book. 

Shannon: I am at work on an Appalachian trilogy of picture books. The first Saving Granddaddy’s Stories—Ray Hicks, the Voice of Appalachia published on October 22nd and the next book, She Sang for the Mountains—Jean Ritchie, Singer, Songwriter, Activist will be published next year. 

Jody: I'm very excited to check these out! 

For more information about Naheed Senzai and Shannon Hitchcock:

Naheed Senzai at www.nhsenzai.com 

Shannon Hitchcock at www.shannonhitchcock.com

And to purchase some of their books: 

Flying over Water

Escape from Aleppo

Saving Granddaddy's Stories

One True Way: An Interview with Shannon Hitchcock

I am so happy to have Shannon Hitchcock back On the Verge!

I'm a huge fan of her work. Her debut novel The Ballad of Jessie Pearl is a favorite-- a girl's coming of age in 1920's rural North Carolina after a family tragedy, and Shannon's take on school integration in Ruby Lee & Me is heart-breaking and thought-provoking. Her new novel, One True Way, skips forward in time to more recent history, 1977. It's a story of friendship and first romance-- between two girls-- set in a period when the country was nowhere near ready to accept, or even acknowledge, homosexuality.

The subject can be touchy for some people even today, but Shannon's a pro at creating three dimensional characters and believable, compelling plots, so I knew I would love the book. And I did!

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Jody: Shannon, something I've learned working at a bookstore is how important it is to be able to sum up a book in a sentence or two in order to grab a potential reader's attention. What's your ten-second pitch for One True Way?

Shannon: From the moment, Allie Drake meets Samantha Johnson at Daniel Boone Middle School, she knows there is something special between them. But Allie never knew a first crush could be so wonderful—or cause so many problems.

Jody: I love that. It perfectly encapsulates the book. Your other novels were inspired by events in your family history. Is that the case for One True Way as well?

Shannon: The idea sparked at a National Council of Teachers of English. I was attending a diversity panel and the librarian/moderator said what she really needed were more middle grade books that deal with homosexuality. She went on to say that’s the age same sex feelings emerge, but there were very few books available.

That resonated with me because many years ago a person I love came out to me. Because we’d both been raised in conservative churches, it was gut wrenching for both of us. I knew immediately I wanted to tell that story.

Jody: There's been a pretty big shift, I think, in the last decade, on how we as a society talk about and view homosexuality. I've noticed that there was a shift even between the years my own two kids (who are four years apart) were in school. When my older son was in college, several kids he knew came out and it was without much fanfare. Only a couple of years later, kids were coming out in my daughter's high school. Now, kids are coming out in middle school.

Your book feels essential for those kids who are thinking about their own sexuality-- coming out or on the verge of coming out, but also for their classmates, and let's face it, for adults who haven't caught up yet with the kids! Were you thinking about any of these issues when you were writing One True Way? Have you gotten any push-back from readers or gatekeepers (teachers, parents, etc.)?

Shannon: The problem with writing a novel with LGBT content is you’re never sure if a negative review is because your writing stinks or the reviewer does. I suspect lots of the push-back for One True Way will be silent censorship. Educators who simply won’t buy or use the book. I agree with you that adults haven’t caught up with kids on LGBT issues.

A recent article in the NY Times reinforced that for me:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/books/george-alex-gino-controversy-oregon.html6.

Jody: I haven't read George by Alex Gino yet, but I know exactly what you mean. A few years ago I teamed up with a librarian to present on silent censorship at an American Association of School Librarians conference. We called our presentation "Two Boys Kissing Is Always Missing" because my librarian friend realized that while she carried that novel by David Levithan in her school library, no child every officially checked it out.

Still, the book was never where it was supposed to be on the shelf. Kids were slipping it out of the library to read. David Levithan himself spoke about that. He acknowledged that kids might be afraid to check the book out or buy it, but just that fact that it existed, that it was on a book shelf, made them feel less alone.

Which is what I think homophobic people are most afraid of when they hear about books like that, and like yours. There's an element of If we pretend homosexuality doesn't exist, then it won't, or something like that.

Shannon: This is true, sadly. In my experience, the prejudice many homosexuals face stems from religion, so if I really wanted my book to make a difference, I needed to examine the source of it. Three books were invaluable to me: Defrocked: How a Father’s Act of love Shook the United Methodist Church by Franklyn Schaefer, Crooked letter i: Coming Out in the South by Connie Griffin, and When Christians Get It Wrong by Adam Hamilton. I also worked with my minister, the Reverend Vicki Walker.

Jody: I'm glad you brought religion up. It's a huge part of many kids' lives but it's rare to see characters in children's books going to church or talking about church. You do a great job depicting different kinds of churches in the story. There's Sam's church-- a fundamentalist church, and there's Allie's, a more progressive one.

Shannon: That was something I worked on and thought about a lot. The readers I am most trying to reach are the kids being raised in conservative churches. I want those kids to know not everyone interprets the Bible the same way, and that it’s important to be true to who they are.

Jody: Something we haven't talked about yet is the setting. This book takes place in the 1970's and reminded me of books I read in the 70's -- books by Paula Danziger and Ellen Conford, books about divorce, friendships, gentle romantic relationships, school interactions...

Did you read those kinds of books when you were growing up in the 1970's? Did you think about books like that when you were writing? What other kinds of research did you do before/when you were writing the novel?

Shannon: Yes, I read those kinds of books, but I didn’t really think about them in writing One True Way. I started by reading YA LGBT books and making note of what content was appropriate and inappropriate for a middle grade audience. I read Boy Meets Boy, Two Boys Kissing, Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe, Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda, The Miseducation of Cameron Post, Annie On My Mind, and many others.

What those books taught me is the emotions are the same whether the relationship is between two boys, two girls, or a boy and a girl. The difference is in the way society reacts to it.

Jody: I've read those books too and they do what the very best books do-- drop the reader into another person's shoes and get them walking around for a bit in a different life. And now we can add One True Way to that list.

Before I let you go, Shannon, I'm excited to hear what you are working on now.

Shannon: I’ve been revising a novel called Callie In Color. I had decided it would never see the light of day, but then received feedback that Callie needed a subplot. I don’t know whether Callie will ever be published, but adding the subplot has reinvigorated my enthusiasm for it. That old adage about not revising in a vacuum turns out to be true.

Jody: I have no doubt that you will figure it out! Thank you, Shannon, for joining me today! Dear readers, if you'd like to learn more about Shannon and her books, see below.

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Shannon Hitchcock is the author of the critically acclaimed One True Way, Ruby Lee & Me and The Ballad of Jesse Pearl. Her picture book biography Overgrown Jack was nominated for the Sue Alexander Most Promising New Work Award. Her writing has been published in Cricket, Highlights for Children, and Children's Writer magazines. She lives in Tampa, Florida.

You can find her online here:
www.ShannonHitchock.com
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The RUBY LEE & ME Blog Tour: Interview with Shannon Hitchcock!

Shannon Hitchcock's new middle grade novel Ruby Lee & Me is out this month and getting all kinds of lovely buzz: Booklist, in a starred review, calls it "a heartening and important offering for younger readers."

And here's the summary from Goodreads:

"Everything's changing for Sarah Beth Willis. After Robin's tragic accident, everyone seems different somehow. Days on the farm aren't the same, and the simple fun of riding a bike or playing outside can be scary. And there's talk in town about the new sixth-grade teacher at Shady Creek. Word is spreading quickly--Mrs. Smyre is like no other teacher anyone has ever seen around these parts. She's the first African American teacher. It's 1969, and while black folks and white folks are cordial, having a black teacher at an all-white school is a strange new happening."

I adored Shannon's first book, The Ballad of Jessie Pearl (she spoke a bit about that book's journey to publication here). Today, I am so pleased to have her back On the Verge.

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Jody: The Ballad of Jessie Pearl is set in the 1920's and inspired by a true event in your family history. Is there a true story behind Ruby Lee & Me?

Shannon: There is. In 1967, I started first grade. That was also the first year that the school system in Yadkin County, North Carolina became integrated. Mrs. Pauline Porter was Fall Creek Elementary School’s first African American teacher. She taught first grade in the classroom beside mine.

Mrs. Porter had a special gift for working with reluctant readers. So every afternoon, she changed classrooms with my teacher, and worked with those of us struggling to read. Mrs. Porter had a beautiful cadence to her voice, and it reminded me of poetry.

Jody: Isn't it amazing how life-changing our first teachers can be--especially ones like your Mrs. Porter? I had a librarian like that in my childhood and recently tried to track her down. Have you ever thought about reconnecting with Mrs. Porter?

Shannon: I did. Several years ago, I heard that she was in failing health. I went for a visit to let her know what an impact she had made on my life. During that visit, she reminded me that white children had been uneasy about having a black teacher.

To ease our concerns, she had asked each of us to touch her face and hair. As Mrs. Porter spoke, my mind drifted back to that time. I remembered how soft her skin felt and how she loved all children regardless of color. As a writer, I wanted to tell a story I hoped would pay tribute to her gentle dignity. I wrote a picture book that I hoped would do just that.

Jody: So, this story started out as a picture book?

Shannon: Yes. I read the manuscript out loud to Scholastic editor, Andrea Pinkney at an SCBWI conference. She ultimately rejected it, but asked me to write a Middle Grade novel using those same themes.

Jody: Wow. That's a potentially huge revision!

Shannon: That's what I was thinking too. After much wailing about how I couldn’t possibly turn a picture book into a novel, I managed to do so, and that’s how this novel came to be.

Jody: How do you tackle a directive like that? Do you outline? Just plunge into writing?

Shannon: A bit of both. My usual process is to start with a very rough outline, but once I begin writing, the manuscript takes on a life of its own. For my current WIP, I used Blake Snyder’s Save the Cat to get started.

Jody: I've never read that, but you're probably the tenth writer friend who's suggested it, so maybe it's time for me to check it out.

Shannon: It's been helpful.

Jody:  I'm a big believer in writing craft books. But I also realize they're not for everyone, and somewhere along the way each writer figures out the writing process that works for them. I know, from speaking to you in the past, that you've had years of practice taking a manuscript from idea to revision to publication.

Shannon: I started out by writing magazine articles and picture book manuscripts. Several of my magazine articles were published, but none of my picture book manuscripts ever made it to press. I’ve lost count of how many manuscripts before I got a book deal, but a lot! All of that was good practice though, because my first novel attempt, The Ballad of Jessie Pearl, was published in 2013.

Jody: Has your writing process changed since then? I'm sure you're busier now.

Shannon: It depends on what else is going on. Like December—it seems I never get any writing done around the holidays.

Jody: Me neither. My schedule goes right out the window and then it's back to work in January. Is it the same for you?

Shannon. I don't have a regular schedule. When I’m in the zone, I’ll write like a fiend, all day every day in my pajamas. I literally do nothing else, and then when I’m finished, I do all the things I neglected when I was writing. I don’t necessarily recommend this approach, but it’s what seems to work for me.

Jody: I tend to do that too, especially as I'm nearing the end of a project. And we haven't talked about promotion yet. Promoting a book can feel like a full-time job in and of itself.

Shannon. It does... I have trouble multi-tasking.

Jody: The writing process, for me, takes so much sustained focus. It's hard to juggle events and travel. Some of that's died down for me, but here you are gearing up again with a second book. Are you approaching promotion the same way you did with Jessie Pearl?

Shannon: You know, I tried everything I could think of to promote that book. I had a curriculum guide prepared, had a book trailer made, sent postcards, gave out bookmarks, wrote a press release, and probably about 100 other things I can’t recall at the moment. I’m of the firm opinion that none of it made much difference in sales.

Jody: For the record I still have the postcard you sent me! But I suspect you're right that it's difficult for an individual author to move the needle on sales numbers in a substantial way. We do what we can do and what we feel comfortable doing...

Shannon: That's what I've decided this time around. I've taken a much more low-key approach. I updated my website, I’m doing interviews like this one, and I will of course do everything my publisher asks me to do, but I am not going to spend a small fortune like last time. I learned the hard way that it doesn’t pay off.

Jody: What are you working on now?

Shannon: Another Middle Grade novel. I’m not ready to disclose the subject yet, but my editor has  the first draft. I’m anxious to get her feedback on whether or not it passes muster. Cross your fingers!

Jody: I will! Thank you so much, Shannon, for chatting with me today.

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Shannon Hitchcock grew up in rural North Carolina on a 100-acre farm. Her extended family and love of the South are integral to her stories. Her picture book biography, Overgrown Jack, was nominated for the Sue Alexander Most Promising New Work Award. In addition to her novels Ruby Lee & Me and The Ballad of Jessie Pearl, her work has appeared in Highlights for Children, Cricket, Ask, and Children's Writer. She currently lives in Tampa, Florida, with her husband and teenaged son.

You can find Shannon at www.shannonhitchcock.com
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Her books are available in bookstores, Amazon and Barnes & Noble

Pathways to Publication: Interview with Shannon Hitchcock

Have a manuscript you think might be worthy of publication and not sure what to do next? Maybe you're wondering if you need an agent and how to go about finding one. Or you're confused about what kind of money is involved--does someone pay YOU or do you have to sink some of your own savings into this venture? What does an editor do? Will you have to market this book yourself?

Last month I wrote about my first feeble attempt at publishing a book. Now I'm interviewing other writers on their SUCCESSFUL pathways to publication--from self-published to traditional, debut writers to a writer who's published 130 books, and everything in between. 

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Children's author Shannon Hitchcock on finding success with a new publishing model


Jody: You wrote a book that you felt was worthy of publication, what were your next steps?


Shannon: When I first started out, I had this vague notion that I wanted to write a children’s book, but I didn’t really know what that entailed. After two years of subbing picture book manuscripts and accumulating a pile of rejections, I took a correspondence class through the Institute of Children’s Literature. My instructor at ICL suggested I join the Society for Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators. Through SCBWI and ICL, I gained a wealth of knowledge.

It took me about ten years of working on craft before I was offered a publishing contract. In hindsight, it didn’t have to take that long, but in the beginning; I didn’t realize how much hard work goes into a publishable manuscript. Because I underestimated how stiff the competition is, I didn’t work nearly hard enough.

Jody: That's a lot of work behind the scenes and leading up to writing a publishable book. Was it smooth sailing from that point on?

Shannon: Not exactly. I started work on The Ballad of Jessie Pearl in late 2009 and completed the first draft in about six months. Many drafts later, I acquired an agent, but she couldn’t sell the manuscript. Most of the feedback we received went something like this: “My main concern is that this is straight historical fiction which is a really tough sale in the marketplace right now.” Being a bit stubborn, I didn’t give up. Instead I took my novel to a Highlights Foundation Whole Novel Workshop.

For those unfamiliar, at a “Whole Novel Workshop,” an editor reads and evaluates your novel in its entirety. Industry veteran, Stephen Roxburgh, who had recently started namelos, a small, independent publishing company, critiqued my novel. He expressed interest in publishing it, and after two rounds of revisions on spec, we signed a contract. The Ballad of Jessie Pearl was published on February 1, 2013.

Jody: You mentioned your agent. How did you find her? What does she do for you?

Shannon: I got an agent the traditional way by sending out query letters, but when my prior agent resigned, Deborah Warren, at the same agency, East/West Literary, inherited my manuscripts. Deborah subs my manuscripts to the editors she deems most appropriate, follows up with those editors, and negotiates contracts on my behalf.

Jody: What does a book deal look like with a small, independent publishing company like namelos?

Shannon: I will call my publishing deal a hybrid. It’s not quite traditional, and it’s a long way from self-published. My publisher does not pay an advance, but he does pay for all publishing costs. I have a 50/50 royalty split arrangement. My book went through multiple rounds of edits, copyedits, was professionally designed, and The Ballad of Jessie Pearl was submitted for professional reviews to all the major review journals. You can read the resumes of the people who worked on my book here.

Jody: Are you required to do a lot of your own marketing and promotion?

Shannon: The marketing strategy at namelos is to sub the books they publish for professional reviews and awards. They printed 150 copies of The Ballad of Jessie Pearl, and Nancy Hogan, head of publicity and foreign rights, sent them to the appropriate people. I have not been required by namelos to do any marketing, but they are appreciative of what I have done on my own. Basically I updated my website, had a book trailer made, and a Curriculum Guide for teachers. You can view all of those things at my website. 

Jody: Any thoughts on the future of publishing or what's going in the industry, as far as mergers, e-books, bookstore closings, etc., go? Do you see any of these issues as affecting you now, or in the future?

Shannon: The publishing industry is in a state of flux. Bookstore closings, which mean less shelf space, aren’t good for anybody. I don’t pretend to have a crystal ball and know how it will all shake out. Still, it’s a good time to be an author because there are more publishing options than ever before.

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Shannon Hitchcock's stories have appeared in Highlights for Children, Ask, and Cricket magazines. Richard Peck, Newbery Award-winning author, shared this high praise about The Ballad of Jessie Pearl: "With the poetry of plain speaking, Shannon Hitchcock recreates the daily drama of a vanished world."

You can find more about Shannon at www.shannonhitchcock.com